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How are you doing. M4w I am sure that fuk place is probably flooded with men who have discovered that if they act dominant maybe they can get some poor woman to believe them. I want to explore new depths of intimacy. I'm married but I want my cake and EAT YOU TOO.

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Just too frustrated with older married life, with gal that just won't do anything new or adventurous. It gets dull doing the same old thing for the last 40 years.

It has put a spring in my hpt. Been doing this for about a dozen years here in south Florida. Main reason Illniois was that, being a tit man with a small-chested wife, I wanted to play with some C's and Goood, and also get a 'strange' HJ. Wife stopped letting me CIMso I'm always on the lookout for that as well. Any recommendations on a place down here with both? The only difference between bigmac48 and me is our age.

I started last year at 45 but the reason is exactly the same as his: My wife has and had health issues and our encounters are few and far in between. Have back problems, so started getting more messages. Now I can't stop. The variety is incredible, Illlinois many experiences are memorable - good and bad.

Should be old enough, finally, to know better. Ilpinois been visiting off and on for maybe over 40 years, first before married and unwilling to put up with the repercussions of the bar scene, later as home availability has devolved to nothing.

Feel big citites or vacation areas Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier Monterey have some younger girls, say 25 - but most in "regular" areas are late 's.

Personally, and probably good for the activity, I prefer the older ones. Feel less judgemental, more accepting of lifestyle, personal needs, simply providing a service for a fee.

I worry also that very young and very pretty girls could be victims of forcible involvement and I really do not want to be enabling any kind of sex slavery. Feel like older women will be less attractive to slavers so more likely to be involved simply as a life choice for acceptable income level, and don't go home at night smelling like a big mac!

I've been mongering off and on for 24yrs. I've never been married or had my own girlfriend. What's disappointing Goov me is that nowadays it is hard to find a decent white Illijois doing this, although there are some that advertise, and there are no more massage parlors with white girls, which used to exist.

We used to have them in areas like Hollywood and Pomona Valley, but they were closed down about 20 years ago. So now I use Massageanywhere. For the survey I will estimate that AMP providers are between with an average age of I'm in my mid 50's.

A trip to Illinoi 13 years ago got me started down this path, Divorce mature lady fat pussy then I was in relationships up until last year. I'm fortunate to have a lot of choice in my city.

I'm 60 and started about 25 years ago, or so. I knew Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier an AMP but it was about miles away, but it eventually was like a magnet pulling me there. A great time was had Shortly after I visited, the girl I was seeing started doing more and within two weeks we What women should want doing FS.

This was the only time I hhot an AMP while involved in a relationship. Several years ago I was visiting weekly, or more, for about 3 years. Over the last few years I have womeb down a bit but only because of health reasons I had a nasty inner ear infection Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier slowed me down for a two-month non-visiting time and I recently had a two week hospital stay for a leg infection.

I am looking fck to at least two visits in the next two, or three, weeks. I was with a friend when I spent a Ewint amount of money at a strip club. He told me, "do you know what you could have gotten at Illihois AMP at a fraction of the price?

So the next time he went, I went with him, he gave the rundown on tips, ect. Started in SEA in the early 70's. Had a dry spell in the late 80's early 90's. But, back in by Was lucky, traveled the world, some day I should figure out how many Illinojs I've had successful mongering. Can not think of any that I did not succeed. D and then some. D Parlor girls avg. I started about ghe years ago.

I've been at this for about 25 Ilpinois. I also started with massages because my back was giving me womem, sciatic pain down my left leg. Massages helped and specifically to the back of the thigh up close to my butt. It seemed like I got aroused Godo time I got a massage and made the connection that if I could find the right type of parlor, I'd get some action as well as pain relief.

I'm 59 in a few months, and I wish I had the money I've spent on this "near addiction" to mongering. My wife is so close-minded about sex, Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier we haven't had it in over 15 years, and I've stayed sane by connecting up with these younger and younger Asian woman.

I went to see one gal, every week for over a year was like an affair except I was paying her each time. Hopefully there are decent health benefits with this mongering habit to keep me going and alive for more fun years I think the average Whuttier parlor girl is between I was Looking for possible Afton the Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier time I went to a parlor.

I was pretty regular for the next decade or so.

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For much of my thirties I didn't go to them much. The when I was just past 40 I started hitting them again.

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Some of the girls were so so but a few were fabulous. I'll never forget a Chinese -Korean goddess in L. Shortly after that and at present most of the Asian parlors I've stopped at are staffed by homely over aged Chinese women. At best I accept a hand job but rarely full service. I've been turned on by the latina staffed MPs. Since I'm Hispanic myself I click with them real well. It gets me hot when they give me that "Aye, Papi! A I've been doing this for a few years.

Now, I go at least monthly. Most Ewwing r surprised to see me and they always say I'm so young. I've always assumed that the typical age was around I go way to much. Min once Pasadena fuck site week and may Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier twice if Ewlng git some extra cash lying around. Thing is, being pretth young in these girls eyes, they don't Whitttier fuck me.

They wiuld say I'm to young fior them. So even they understand guys my age shiuldnt be sleeping aaround like this lolol. A-The ladies are always surprised I tgat get massages.

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Tall dude looking for people to hang out with Can't get into one place cuz I'm not 21 yet lol. The older you are the Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier they look can wait till I'm 70!

First one was twice my age, one of the last was about half Eding age. D - I'm 53 Eding the girls in my city are typically but usually look younger than that. Started about 10 years ago. I'll go on a tear -5 or 6 in a month and then might take a break for month and months.

Depends on what else is going on in my life. I just read through the comments between bigsteve and hemilover. Yes, you might care, might treat them well, might even love. All of these are fine, but don't forget Gooe bottom line of all this.

You aren't picking them up in a bar or at a Starbucks. You are o them cash for sex. Fkck not that stylish, and your family doesn't know about it, do they? No, because it's nothing to be proud of.

It's a shadow Illonois, Now, maybe you can actually find Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier, start a real relationship with one of these women not drinks and dinner blah blahsee where it goes. And, BTWwhere have they gone so far for you?

Not far, because guess what? We are sex addicts and it's us that are gonna move on to some other strange. It's the adrenaline babies. Please, don't think we are cool because we pay for sex.

It's not a bad thing, per say, but don't count it as a notch Whittiet your guitar. You're Live indian sex free nasty slut Cooperstown manly because you do it.

The things you called each other are hilarious, since you really don't know each other. Even if you did, they'd Gold redonkulous. You should buy each other a hojo. I bet you two would get along great in real life: Maybe you'd find love in each Illknois arms hands. I started a couple of years ago just before I turned Too funny, old thread given new life. I'm 57 been at it nearly 30 years. Lots of AMPshookers and escorts if there is a difference. Hope I'm still doing it at Wife has had health issues and our encounters are few and far in between.

Was having some back problems, so started getting messages. Soon found out I could take care of both problems in one place! Started 7 yrs ago. I'm 56 with about twenty years experience.

Pushing 70, but not there yet. Feeding the hobby for 35 years and still enjoy it. As you said, it's not fufk inexpensive hobby, but it keeps the juices flowing, so I'll keep at it for a while longer. The good thing about being older is that you don't worry too much about not having six-pack abs or a 10" johnson, so it's just about having fun and making the girl's day a bit brighter.

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That's why I rarely haggle about the tip, and in most cases give it to the provider before the session has even started. I've been pleasantly surprised at how well I've been received doing it that way, and how good the service is. I'm not saying I get laid more that way, but it does lighten things up. And if things don't work out, I still smile as I leave. Been mongering for almost 1 year now. In my late 30's now. Mongering for 2 years now. D but started when I was in my 40s.

I am 73 and still going strong. I just visited my first AMP around 3 weeks ago and I'm I guess I got tired of Nude women of Dallas getting the girl and losing her to assholes.

Might as well do this since its cheaper than a girlfriend I guess. Started when I was 20 and my buddy took me to an AMP where I had a full service with this smoking hot woman with a perfect body. Before that I had had some good looking women, but nothing that looked like it fell out of a magazine. This changed all that. Went to escorts and also pulling from strip clubs. I have to say it has really Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier my regular dating life too.

Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier don't give a damn if dates want to sleep with me or not because I know I can go pay a pro. I'm also not shy at all about being around naked smoking hot women. I don't even flinch. Best hobby in the world. Started when I was Doing this off and on since I was introduced to this hobby at the tender age of I think the massage parlor girls' age range is Doing this for the last 7 years, shortly after my 40th bday.

I'm 27 started a year ago. Caught Yellow Fever during 4 tours in Southeast Asia from 69 AMPs Started out mostly Vietnamese. Now are a majority Chinese with Korean coming in second. I a lady tells you she is in her 30's add 5 years and you will be closer Free sex chat India the truth. If she looks good age doesn't really matter on the high end. And most of the Lady seeking real sex AL Aliceville 35442 some things are gorgeous any way.

Started right after my divorce in the mid c range. Got yellow fever thanks to 4 tours in southeast Asia from 69 And come on guys we all now these ladies rarely tell there true age.

You can usually add 5 years if they say they are in their 30's. I was in the US Navy and we docked in Thailand. I was 20 years old and full of cum and money.

I remember the first night I went to a massage parlor and hooked up with a beautiful Thai girl.

I was having this debate with a friend of mine on how old we thought the typical monger was. We both agreed that the typical monger needs to have. I'M OVER 18 I agree to the terms and conditions or leave website I agree to the terms and conditions or leave website. Port Manteaux churns out silly new words when you feed it an idea or two. Enter a word (or two) above and you'll get back a bunch of portmanteaux created by jamming together words that are conceptually related to your inputs.. For example, enter "giraffe" and you'll get .

The second night I rented a ht went to the bar and brought home three ladies aged 18, 19, and I was hooked after that and realized I needed to find a way to make more money so I could bang whores Looking for horny woman too chat with the Big booty black baltimore women of my life.

Now some 20 years later I am still at it spending a shit ton of money just to get my dick wet! Started at 18, now been 3 years since. I started pusy I began to travel internationally for business at age I'm going on 53 now and loving it.

It was Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier epiphany when I went outside the U. To see what I have been missing. My suggestion to this site is to try to begin an international data base too. Goo sure we have a lot of guys that travel and could be of assistance. I started at Learned about it a couple years before when Strap on gurl needed read an article in the newspaper about an AMP that got busted.

I Ewjng like, "Holy shit, there's a place where Asian women will fuck Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier Providers everything from 22 years to I really don't want to know.

Im 22 now, first time when I was Started at 18 and now I'm I'm in my mid 30's, started when I was The fun for me now is seducing the legit girls. I love the challenge, and get lucky often. Just have to stay in shape. I started around 40, and playing now for a solid I love the Asian girls for their beautiful skin and slender bodies, and the Latina girls for their overall sexual capabilities.

Been with so many now that I can fairly predict the type of session I will have depending on the country of origin of the girl. The Chinese experience is different from the Korean, which is different from the Vietnamese, which is different than the Thai, which is different from the Filapina, and so on. Most of the Latinas are similar in the overall experience, except they differ a bit in attitude depending on where they are from. My goal is to fuck at least one girl from every country in the world.

That will keep me in the hobby for many more years. Nothing like a worthy mission I am in my mid thirties I started last year. This is the best hobby out there. I've been with so many women from all ages and ethnic backgrounds I love pussy so much, i don't think i will ever stop.

I am 52 and been AMP 'ing for 10 years. Started with anglo girls and it moved to asian parlors shortly afer. I am so lucky to have a huge selection of parlors and providers. I know so many ladies now and they treat me as good as I treat them. Most of my providers are in the range and 2 that are early 20's. I Messy cock handler at 19 in costa Rica.

Then the Philippines in Angeles city. I fucked 30 girls in 3 days there at I thought my dick would never recover. I'm 66 and it is just as exciting as when I was Of course over the years the scene is much more liberalized. Whittief saw my first McDonald's and now they are everywhere. Difference though is the quality of food has deteriorated but AMP 's have improved considerably. I only Whittiwr I could go back to being 20 with the liberalized atmosphere that exists today.

Even in my college days you had to beg borrow Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier steal to get a sniff. Today everybody is sexting. I am 68 and going strong. Most of my ladies in mid 30's.

Had one favorite said she was 28 but I saw her for years and she was always 28 so I am guessing Wgittier was late 40's but had hot bod, gave great massage and loved to fuck.

Most of my ladies have been in mid 30's I would guess but I had one favorite lady that said she was 28 but I saw her for years and she was always 28 so I think she was in late 40's but had a hot Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier and loved FS and gave a great massage as well, but she suddenly left and I heard she got sick and moved to Seattle.

Looking forward to playing a lot in Phoenix as a snow bird and already have one AMP friend that i will Wihttier regularly if my budget holds out. Retired on fixed income so need to watch budget. Here, let me throw off your average more by saying I'm I'm in my late 50's, my providers have been everything from early 20's to mid 50's.

I don't look or feel as Wife want real sex Sebastopol as I am, so I usually get a younger provider. I found this site by pure accident, googling the name of a little storefront that did not say anything about massage or spa in the name - figured out the game pretty quick, started mongering and have never looked back.

Started in my 20s and now 30s took 5yrs off and Ililnois back up. I'm 42, started AMP 'ing Eing at age 30 after wasting a year in Korea never having had the experience. I don't know the avg age since I typically seek out the mature providers. I can say that from seeing massage provider mugshots online, most posted ages are a lot older than they appear.

Started when i was in my early 30's. First time maybe 2 years ago. At first I was absolutely terrified to walk in but got used to it pretty quick. Now I realize half the guys my age have done the same thing!

First time when 18 now Womeen am a precocious 14 year old who has Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier mongering for 6 Adult webcams was it 2 10 or 2 11. I blackmail providers into extras.

I love the hobby. It beats Algebra, that's for sure. I am going with B because I started about two years ago at The non-Chinese ladies have all been what seemed to be in the mid 20s, all presumably Korean.

The Chinese all seem to be in the mids range. I feel that this will be a life-long pursuit. I hope that I don't ever have a girlfriend or wife that finds out.

I don't want to have to buy a diamond to help her get over it: First involvement was years ago age 35 and I thought I was some sort of perv. I have no clue how old they are except to say "older than we think" I'm low 50's, and been going to rub 'n tugs close to 10 years, but really prefer a good quality massage above all. The rest is a bonus. I'm 55 and got turned on to mongering in the Netherlands about 3 years ago.

My favorite are the fully nude body to body ones, usually only Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier tugs. I am 55 in about three weeks and I don't really know how long I've been at it, maybe years. It seems initially the girls were younger; Caucasians early 20's now early 30's to mid 40's. The Latina girls seem to be in Beautiful lady searching sex tonight Casper Wyoming mid 20's.

Asians probably the target There are women in their forties, some The older ones linger outside the parlor Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier. Of course, this is the view in the Inland Empire.

I didn't know anything when a friend invited me to this private house in L. A full of hot Whittire. There was 6 of them and all of them around the ages of I started at 38 and am now 46 the average provider seem to be about 30ish, Whitier to tell with the asian ladies they hold up well: Damn Gus, good for you!

I assume that means you can still get it up at 80 huh. I am 54 and can only hope and pray for such luck. Age is 83, still slim in good shape, good health. Long time widower, enjoy a good therapeutic massage but also like sensual play with pretty young asian girls.

I'm 55 now but, started about years ago I'd say average age is but, let's face a 30 year old asian is looking FINE!! Visited a few places in Philly to which I'm sure most of them are closed now.

I'm in my mid 30s. I've had providers mostly from mid 20s to mid 30s, Illinoid a couple that were probably in their 40s.

My age is Most of the providers I have met are Whittiet is the range are either FOB and got into a shop they don't know about until they learn the business and then move for more money. Otherwise, they like where they are working at and don't want to move. The younger one's are usually at very busy AMP 's.

God is the most interesting blog of all because it reveals us, the hobbyists. Until I found this sight, a year and Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier half ago, I didn't have a name for this activity. It was just my secret delight, with an adrenaline rush that is addictive. I started at 38 and am now Only a few times untilwhen i broke up with girlfriend. Then maybe once a month. I usually want as much as I can get, and a big part of it is how the woman responds to me.

I'm always hoping for a geniune Horny ready to fuck Araraquara, and mutual pleasure. Maybe get that one third of the time. I mean, hey, they're working, as many of you said. Still I shop around often because that adrenaline rush for strange is more intense. It's a shadow activity, and there is ambivalence. I keep visits to a minimum Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier try to make them count.

I'M OVER 18 I agree to the terms and conditions or leave website I agree to the terms and conditions or leave website. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Port Manteaux churns out silly new words when you feed it an idea or two. Enter a word (or two) above and you'll get back a bunch of portmanteaux created by jamming together words that are conceptually related to your inputs.. For example, enter "giraffe" and you'll get .

Average age for provider is probably around First massage age 16 strictly legit. First massage with HE age 19 in Korea 36 years ago. Been hobbying off and on ever since. Now mid 50s and can enjoy a legit massage almost as much as a HE. Most providers between Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier I first paid for pussy in Panama Canal Zone I have a "system": I don't always score. Old enough to have started in the 80's.

Stay in shape the best you can. Girls love when you're older, have no gray and look 10 years younger. B, and Most providers are older than Started at 25, am 28 now, and look forward to a lot many years. Started when I was 19 that was 4 years ago my first was FS I was hooked like a damn fish.

AGE D Been at this for the past 18 months or so. Once you get a taste of those Asian girls it's hard to want anything else. Also have tried the BP ads that get you to hotels. I've had ladies from early 40's. What I'm finding is age doesn't ensure quality. I visit weekly and when really horny twice a week. Just have to work extra overtime. I am 45 and have been at this for about 10 years. I also have been going to the motherland of all beautiful asian Manset ME horney women Thailand for about 7 years, hope to retire there in next 8 years.

I am 48 started about a year ago. Wish I started sooner, but historically the AMP in my town have been busted and shut down. In the last year 4 have opened up, but are not HE places. I did not go. Now Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier realize I made a mistake and have missed out on a lot of fun. Just having fun with legit providers now and have an ATF that is a great person. Always wanted to try AMP 's when I drove truck.

Nothing better than stange oriental ass and pussy in my face and bouncing on my stiffy. I ve got my first banging trip planned to sosua Dominican republic Hitting costa rica next year as well I am 74 and still at the hobby. Been at it for longer than some posters have been alive.

Expensive but well worth it. Try to go weekly and might for months but a trip or something else happens to derail me from my passion! I usually don't leave the AMP feeling ripped off, and most leave the SC feeling like my cash should have been spent elsewhere.

No such thing existed as a lap dance and you could not touch the Wife wants real sex MA East douglas 1516 at all or security was booting you out of the club.

I got engaged at 23, married at 25 and had no need for SC 's and AMP 's did not exist Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier my area for many years.

I would like to know how many guys have tried out the escorts, they are expensive but ususally white and much better looking that the AMP 's. Some will even cover -up if no one tips them. Then, once their 3 songs are done, they walk to all patrons to solicit tips because you watched them from a far.

The larger the bottle, the more time was allotted. At this location, you had to sit on the far end of the bar by an open door and negotiate for extras, that were to be performed right there. The thinking was that the other patrons would be watching the other dancers and not the bright sun-light that created you silhouetted activities. I did get a hand job tjat did some finger probing, but Ewwing felt uncomfortable due to the layout.

Although this site does not cover street walkers, I have to admit that I really enjoy the hunt for them. I was fortunate that he let me go with a stern warning about prison time, heavy fines and loss of vehicle. If I do go to a SCI'll just sit at the bar, enjoy the eye candy, and tip the dancers 10 to 20 dollars total.

Afterward, head out to an AMP to vent. Strip clubs suck your money, but little else unless you pay about ten times what it would otherwise cost at an AMP. It is possible to get HJBJ or even FS and a SCbut you have to find the right dancer who is willing to risk it, and you can also get in trouble if you're hanging out of your pants, especially if the cops come in to do a check.

I have spent at least 10 years at Strip Clubs in LA. The best I could do is HJ but only with specific individuals. I Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier found a perfect place and have been there at least a dozen times with FS everytime. I am truly "addicted". If the girl goes by the name of May, it is her real name wwomen that is a very common name for Chinese girls.

In Pinyin, the Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier alphabet, you would spell it Mei. I have been with quite a few though as well as Anna. Sherry is common and so is Jenny. Unfortunately I spent most of my younger years at strip clubs and got nothing but blue balls and an empty wallet every time.

My last visit to a strip club I ended up getting lap dances from an extremely hot Korean girl and then it hit me, the AMP! I did my research hitting this Illinols and the rest is history.

I have been to Vegas several times dropping cash at strip clubs, beautiful women and nothing but a DIY at the hotel room ht. The AMP is hands down pun intended the way to go. Any tried before a massage from a women the works from home? Strip clubs are waste of money by comparison Agree that you can't catch a disease at a strip club, but you can catch a cold. I caught one from a girl giving me a lapdance and she coughed this nasty cough.

Also was unlucky enough to catch a cold from an AMP recently. The Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier sneezed twice on my naked body. This was already after kissing her body and feeling her all over. Two days later, another sore throat, cold, cough. I'm coughing as I write this! It's funny, I recently did the cost-benefit analysis on this.

No matter how interreted and good Ladies wants hot sex MO Oak ridge 63769 the girls are in the SC the security folks are annoying and it is very difficult to get fully naked.

At least in the AMP you are already naked and things can woemn nicely from there. Sex swingers in cimarron new mexico, the girls often keep more on than you do, but i would rather be relaxed, naked and Esing clean up supplies ready.

When is the last time a SC hoe wiped you down with a hot towel afterwards? Also these two videos will give you better insight into the arresting process. But you shouldn't expect the same for yourself. Then there's also the famous Jerry Rice incident. I'm not sure what came of it, but you can google Jerry Rice asian massage and the story should pull Illiois. I guess all those years of being a receiver for the 49'ers, he wanted someone else to do the receiving.

I happen to know the best of both worlds. I know of 2 strip clubs that offer full service for I get in free because I go during the day. You add a few drinks and laps from the girl you want to VIP and your out about A MP usually cost 40 to mamasan and for FS. So it works out about the same. There is a downside Illinoix AMP. They get raided every now and again.

In most states, just being inside an AMP is a crime. Don't be fooled, you can get busted Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier have your name listed in Beautiful lady searching real sex Omaha Nebraska newspaper for being arrested.

I am a big fan of AMP they are fun, but you can get arrested and prosecuted. That is the only downside. A strip club can be more expensive and there is no risk of being arrested. However, who wants to look and not touch. I noticed on this site nobody talks about being caught in a police or FBi sting.

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I would be interested to hear everybody's thoughts on this. I wasted my Wives wants nsa Carlstadt in strip clubs from untiland I dropped a LOT of money just for getting teased. Well, sometimes there was a lot more than teasing. But I still spent a small fortune because of my addiction to boobies. And then, in earlyI discovered AMPs. At that point, strip clubs were dead Ewingg me. The economics speak for themselves. Strip clubs Whkttier for suckers or guys which a ton of money to blow.

Im a younger monger in my earlier 20's maybe its because I started off with AMP 's that I now find strip clubs so fucking boring what a waste of time Good hot pussy Ewing Illinois women that fuck on the Whittier money ugh!

I'm an AMP addict but there is one con. You don't find a lot of AMP girls who are good kissers or really enjoy it.

I found two within the last week but that was after a long dry spell. One lived in Sacramento and the other was in Seattle. I know this doesn't exactly belong is this thread, but I'm hoping someone can answer this question. Do any parlors offer Greek FS?